Posts by Island Man

62

Basic Bible and Religious Vocabulary the Watchtower Never Teaches

by CalebInFloroda in

when i began formal study of religion and biblical analysis it was like peeling off layer after layer of dark matter, sticky and putrid that had stuck over my eyes and ears and mouth.

i learned that under the watchtower one only builds a widening gap between yourself and the world of biblical academia and scholars.

i used to think i knew a lot because i learned to quote a few scholars or lexicons as a witness.

Island Man

"Those are the evil apostate words of the "wise and intellectual ones" of christendom's clergy! Jehovah's humble people speak the pure language!"

</satirical JW response>

8

Latest cherry picking: August 2015 Awake!First Life: Discovering the Connections between Stars, Cells, and How Life Began

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

the august 2015 awake continues a cherished watchtower tradition: misquoting / cherry picking scientists.. it is clearly a selective use of information because when you read what they are saying, you know they are saying "life is complex, therefore, god.".

whereas the scientists, although they show admiration for life and how amazing it is, also recognize that we are getting closer and closer to understanding the origin of life.

it doesn't seem like it takes a supreme being to make life when you read the next paragraph in the actual quote.http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201508/dna-in-your-cells/.

Island Man

I don't know if I would call this a misquote. They only quoted him to support the point that life is complex. They're not making it seem like he's implying an intelligent designer or calling evolution or abiogenesis into question.

I would say this is a case of Watchtower cherry-picking information. They quoted only part of his statement which supports one of their secondary points - a point that the source would also agree with, namely, that life is complex. But they omitted to share the sources thoughts which would go against their agenda of promoting intelligent design.

Not a misquote that the source can honestly fault them for. But definitely a case of Watchtower disingenuously cherry picking information. IMHO.

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

Island Man

Interesting OP. But there is a far deeper problem with the ransom issue. Adam did not introduce sin into the world. Eve did! But the NT falsely attributes the introduction of sin among the human family, to Adam. Why do you think that is?

Romans 5:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45-49 both convey the idea that Christ is similar to Adam and 1 Timothy 2:6 can mean "corresponding ransom" given that the prefix anti in antilutron has "corresponding" as one of its meanings. Admittedly it also has "exchange" and "instead of" as meanings and these latter meanings also fit the context of the verse. So I wouldn't be so quick to knock Watchtower's premise that the ransom had to correspond with Adam.

In fact, I think it explains why the NT falsely blames Adam for the introduction of sin into the world instead of more accurately blaming Eve as being the first one to sin and who got Adam to sin. You see, if the NT blames Eve for introducing sin, then that would mean the ransomer who had to die would have to be a woman like Eve was. But the patriarchal misogynistic society in which christianity was born, could not stomach the thought of a woman having such a prominent role. So to solve the issue, they just ignored the fact that it was actually Eve who sinned first, and pinned the introduction of sin on her male accomplice, Adam.

Another possibility is this: The sacrificial messiah that christians thought up in Jesus, is not really the messiah foretold in the OT. The Jews' conception of the messiah is actually the "correct" one - i.e. the one intended by the OT writers - while the christians' conception of the messiah being Jesus, is actually fraudulent. Jesus is just another one of a long line of fraudulent messiahs that popped up around the first century, but with one distinction - he happened to be more successful in inspiring his followers so that he left a surviving legacy behind. That would explain why some of the OT texts that are quoted in the NT as prophecies of christ seem so mundane and unprophetic in their original OT context. The early christians were basically taking random OT quotes that had any vague similarity to Jesus' circumstances and styling them as a prophecy in a post hoc manner.

That would also explain why Adam has to be dishonestly shoe-horned into the salvation-ransom narrative as being the introducer of sin. Jesus was a man and so as a sacrificial offering he had to correspond to Adam and not Eve. But that Eve introduced sin into the world is without dispute when you read Genesis. In fact, it is even apparent that one of the objectives of Genesis 3 is to provide an explanation for why women are subjugated by men, treated as property, and more sinful - because of Eve's sin. Eve sinned first so as punishment women occupy a secondary, servile role in human society - that is one of the messages implied by God's words to Eve when confronting them on their sin.

25

"Don't you love Jehovah anymore then ?"

by Phizzy in

mrs phizzy ran into a jw lady from a neighbouring congo who has known us since we were teenagers, before we married, sometime in the pleistocene era lol.. during the conversation said lady asked if mrs phizzy was going to the r.c, to which mrs phizzy replied, "oh you haven't heard, we no longer go to meetings".. the jw lady then came back with the question in the thread title, which mrs phizzy handled well.. the point of this is though, what a god-awful, stupid, cult-minded question to ask !.

did she think we woke up one morning and thought "we don't love god anymore" ??

would that happen to anyone ?.

Island Man

I'm very interested in hearing Mrs. Phizzy's response. But here is how I would have responded:

"Of course I still love Jehovah! Why would you think a person can't love Jehovah unless they attended JW meetings, specifically. I distinctly recall when I was studying to get baptized, that it was said that ones baptism is in symbol of a dedication made to God and not to an organization. In light of that I find it rather odd that many JWs assume that persons who no longer associate with the JW organization have abandoned God. A person's dedication to God is independent of any organization, right? Or is it that Watchtower teaches one thing and JWs believe another?"

70

How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

by Joe Grundy in

several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

Island Man

I think I know why the elders asked that question - not that I'm seeking to justify or excuse them for asking it.

Do you recall Watchtower's "rape-scream" policy? When a sister says he has been raped, the elders ask her if she screamed. If she didn't scream then she puts herself in danger of being accused of having complicit sex and disfellowshipped for fornication. Watchtower foolishly wants rape victims to resist the attacker as much as possible even if that puts the victim in danger of being severely injured (in other physical ways) or killed by an armed attacker.

So the elders question about how far apart her legs were, was probably prompted by this "rape-scream"/"resist-the-attacker" mindset. They were probably reasoning - foolishly - that her level of complicity in the act is directly proportional to how wide her legs were open. Wide open legs would be seen by them as evidence that she was inviting the act, while closed or minimally opened legs would be taken by them as evidence that she was doing all she could to resist the attack.

But it is all foolish. It would be like the police, questioning a bank teller as to how quickly she handed over the money to an armed robber; or whether she handed it over with both hands or just one hand, to determine if she was complicit in the robbery, and is to be charged as an accomplice.

39

Child Abuse - "I don't care. I haven't got any children".

by cofty in

earlier this week i bumped into a couple of jws who i recognised from the cult cart.

a few months ago i had a long conversation with him one of them and found him to be quite friendly.

he is new to the area in the years since i left.. this time he was very defensive and said he wasn't allowed to talk to me.

Island Man

I would have said to him:

"the scripture is having fulfillment in you, which says: 'having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power, and from these turn away.' "

20

Potential for new meeting?

by campaign of hate in

i've mentioned it in a few threads, but i'd like to make it a thread of it's own.. i'm going to make the prediction the gb will schedule a new meeting once a month, starting in jan 2016, for watching the jw broadcasting program.

at the moment it's up to each cong to organize a viewing, but soon the gb will take over the arrangements.. i make this assumption based on the fact that they know that a substantial quantity of pubs are not tuning in every month.. by scheduling a meeting once a month, it's easier for the gb/elders/organisation to gauge how many people are watching, and to make sure everyone is fully indoctrinated with what the gb are saying.

it will also keep the rank and file busy busy busy.. if i was a cult leader, that's what i would do.

Island Man

I don't believe they will have a new meeting. What is more likely to happen is that once a month, the normal public talk at the kingdom hall will be replaced by a video presentation from JW broadcasting. Or maybe it could be the service meeting that gets replaced once a month.

5

Earth 2.0 discovered!

by Island Man in

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/23/us/feat-nasa-kepler-planet-discovery/index.html.

this planet is the most earth-like planet discovered to-date.

it's at the right distance from its sun to allow for liquid water and life, and it has a year of 385 days - only 20 days longer than our own year!.

Island Man

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/23/us/feat-nasa-kepler-planet-discovery/index.html

This planet is the most earth-like planet discovered to-date. It's at the right distance from its sun to allow for liquid water and life, and it has a year of 385 days - only 20 days longer than our own year!

When dubs point to earth's distance from the sun as evidence of design, just ask them why Kepler-452b is the right distance from its star to be able to sustain life.

4

For the First time.. I have found actual Proof of Jehovah's Witnesses in the Bible!

by LAWHFol in

the scripture is matthew 6:2 "so when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others.".

the similarities are shocking!

here is a list of bullet points, highlighting the ways that the jw's match today.. as a jw your gifts to the needy (in the form of "a life saving work" of 70 hours) are announced from the stage with a microphone, and you are then honored by others, in the form of them applauding in the kingdom hall.. duplicates?.

Island Man

In the bible JWs are mentioned here --> 2 Timothy 3:7; and here --> Ephesians 4:14; and here --> Luke 21:8

24

Resistance is NOT futile!

by Bonsai in

all i want from this life is to be able to wash windows at bethel.. my story.. when i was fresh out of high school and pioneering, i said those exact words to my friends and family.

all i wanted to do was be at the core of the organization where it was the safest.

i gleefully told people that i'd gladly spend the rest of my life washing windows, waiting tables, doing laundry or cleaning bathrooms.

Island Man

"Zeb, according to the JW's putting a flower on a casket is an ancient pagan custom to honor and worship the dead."

What! I never knew that. Those legalistic, self-righteous pharisees!